Stating that arguments centred around an entertainment medium have a degree of subjectivism to them is pointing out the blearingly obvious at best, meaningless blather and cope for lack of substansive commentary at worst.
Whining that you do not like the tone is, if possible, even less substansive. And yet you compound this intriguing mixture of adolescent defiance and absolutely humiliating failure to comment meaningfully in any way shape or form with grudging acknowledgement that there might be a point after all. Well gee, you could have skipped to the end without boring us with your personal diary.
Whether there is a discussion to be had or no, this is not for you to decide. Eat your free food and be grateful, piggy.
Yes I am certainly doing extremely poorly having just released the third volume of this grand series to the joy of me and mine, and inspiring the creation of similar contests :D https://princeofnothing.itch.io/no-artpunk-iii
This has been your second failed attempt at commentary. First, obviously myself and the defenition of pretentious are well acquainted, old friends, soul-mates if you will. Second, a defenition does not possess intelligence and memory, therefore it cannot actually get acquainted with me.
Perhaps a clearer explanation will help you in the future; This is a comment section, for the exchange of ideas and experiences, the airing of questions, the meeting of great minds and the engagement with the substance of the product. This is not your personal diary, nor is it a digital litterbox for the explusion of ugly, malformed, unintelligable pariah-caste thought-pellets. At this point I must recommend you consider the possibility that commentary might simply not be for you, and you should instead pursue a career in subsistence farming. Then, if during Kwanza, the local warlord allows you a few hours of free time and a stable internet connection, you may download my work, and if you like it, say, 'Thank you Prince' and then go back to farming, lest the irate warlord make an example out of you.
So remember; It's 'Thank you, Prince.' Now back to work.
Invoking pride certainly seems an appropriate fit for the quality of your rejoinders thus far. You are also going to have to put in some work on the bants though, my initial divine wrath at your smudgy, uncouth vandalism of my pristine, lordly and blessed comment's section is turning into weary apathy at the rate this is going. I understand that for a person of your normally parasitic demeanor this might not come as second nature but I remain eternally optimistic, as well as unusually charitable.
W.r.t thanks; Don't mention it lad. Have a good time, play a few games with them. Try the high level adventures too, they are pretty good and its good fun if you can find a DM with the brain cells. And while you are at it, donate a few bucks to help me fight Aids and Artpunk.
I like the DIY feel of this, but who is this attacking and why? It feels a little weird tbh to be gatekeeping OSR/NSR stuff. I guess I might be a little bit out of the loop, but what defines Artpunk? And what defines OSR to you? I agree the term seems to have been diluted today, but I'm trying to parse what your goal is here.
I mean this with the utmost sincerity. This is the first I'm finding of the No Artpunk thing.
EDIT: I should have read the essay at the beginning of the book first.
Simply put, would you agree your thesis is that "A lot of OSR material tends put style over untested substance."?
If so, I think I agree.
I like the idea of following the root of the hobby had having a shared b/x language. I'm not a creator so I have very little skin in the game either way. But it seems to me like the dilution and uninspired creations in the Artpunk movement just happened as a consequence of it becoming large. It's just Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is crap). I don't think it's necessarily a consequence of not having a shared system or ignoring the lessons of Gygax and other older creators.
Once your No Artpunk movement becomes large enough, will you criticize it as well?
Simply put, it had an OD&D/AD&D language before it had a B/X language. I would agree there is dilution as a result of an influx of newcomers, but the main problem is these newcomers have not been habituated or 'civilized'. Increasing the pool should increase the amount of good material that is coming out also. This, I think, does not occur in the same measure that it used to.
I think the decay is exacerbated by having neither a culture of practice nor a unifying system which serves as an anchor for that culture. Without it, you go back to square one, stumbling in darkness, endlessly re-invented the wheel. It is a precondition for transcending Sturgeon's law, rising out of the primordial chaos.
I run a fairly popular review blog. I've criticized everything from uber traditional AD&D tournament modules, 5e campaign settings to more Artpunky material. I have a preference, but I've given very positive reviews to works like Deep Carbon Observatory, and negative reviews to, say, The Seven Shrines of Nav'Qar which I find too traditional. My goal is not to destroy innovation. It is to refocus creative energies and encourage engagement with the subject material.
This year it is high level D&D. Keep an eye on the blog if you would like to know more. And happy gaming!
Interesting. I haven't been able to read the whole blog post, but I'm glad that you agree that people who like playing Monopoly desperately need help.
I dunno how interested in a high level D&D version of this I would be as I probably don't play enough for it to be useful to me, but it seems pretty cool. I guess this is where you're going to start narrowing and lose people like me. Not that you probably mind, it seems like this is an area you're interested in exploring as a passion which is pretty cool.
I'm not particularly attached to the OSR or the purity of it, but I think I can appreciate what you're trying to do and say. Creating a more focused OSR is an interesting goal and its kinda neat to see people congregating around that idea.
Personally, I like the rules-lite approach surrounding the OSR, and the "just play" attitude I tend to see in these spaces online. As someone who started at 12 years old with 3.5e, I don't have the original experience or nostalgia with OD&D or B/X, but I've enjoyed the simplicity and charm. And the fact that PCs don't start off with 10 page backstories, something I was often guilty of which completely blocked my ability to actually play with a group.
I've come to realize I just don't care for the focus on "Narrative" and "Role-Play" in capital letters (PbtA, FATE). Those things tend to be exhausting after a while for me. Fast and procedural play really seem to work for me in actual play which is why I've enjoyed things in this space.
I do wish the categories were clearer so I could understand who and what I'm engaging with online, but at the end of the day if I'm enjoying a game with hp, ac, str, int, wis, dex, con, cha, and xp, and its in a dungeon, I'm playing D&D and that's good enough for me. I don't really care what its called as long as me and my friends are having fun.
Also: Are you still writing on that Simulacrum blog? It seems like the last post was in May 2022.
I think its definetely not meant for everyone, certainly not for newcomers, but its easier and more fun then it looks. If you ever get deeper into oldschool D&D its worth a shot. Fwiw when I ran Slyth Hive, some of my playtesters were totally new to AD&D, especially high level AD&D and they loved it.
[More focused OSR]
I see it as a correction. It used to be more focused, now its grown so broad it has become meaningless, so its time to refocus and go back to what it was all about when it began.
I started one game earlier then you, with 2nd edition. I like the lighter nature of the OSR over 3.5e too, but I do think the current rules lite trend is a little ridiculous, and there is definetely a point where you start to seriously cut into the substance of the game. I too enjoy the game part of rpgs much more then the narrative or role-playing part.
[Preferences]
I like my D&D to be challenging, versatile, occasionally complex and about player skill. I think there is an immense wealth of material and experience that has been built up over decades of play that can help people make better stuff.
FYI, if you liked the collection, I have a second one up on Drivethru which is also free. I hope you get some use out of them.
The amount of pure copium in this product is amazing to behold, before you get to the plain text adventures with stock photos or mspaint art, you're met with a multi-page essay on why things back in the day were great and how today's adventures are awful because of... pronouns and... art by paid illustrators and... professional layout software, and *if only we could go back to MY childhood when things were actually PLAYABLE*, conveniently forgetting even the three little brown books were better presented and more professionally illustrated than this stuff.
I'd rather stick with artpunk games to be honest, at least those creators make things based on what they love, rather than getting their friends together to collectively despise something and tell you their way is the one true way... to pretend to be elves and dwarves around a kitchen table.
Ps. It's always hilarious to see people claim their games are free of politics, when what they mean is "free of things I deem to be political or disagreeable", the head-in-sand energy is strong here.
Yes you certainly seem very Zen and level-headed. I don't think you quite understood the essay, but you don't really have to.
I didn't know any of these people before they participated in the contest, and these are labors of love and genuine joy. That you would focus on a single sentence instead of the actual material is, well, it sort of proves the point of that single sentence.
One true way? Who knows. I think I can encourage people to do better work for sure.
How would you say NAP II holds up against your recent purchase of 'I Don't Need Therapy, I Need to Get Gangbanged by 14 Werewolves in Public'? Would adding more Werewolves sway you? Out with it! I have a hobby to conquer!
I rated 'I Don't Need Therapy, I Need to Get Gangbanged by 14 Werewolves in Public' 14/10 Werewolves.
I rate 'No Artpunk II' 0.5/10 Werewolves, on account of lacking any Werewolves.
0.5 points for the pregen companion named Wolfhead, but sadly they are human, and not even a human with a wolf's head? Truly, this is stirring a spoon in the blandest portage.
This criticism, while idiotic at first glance, does seem to possess a certain unassailable self-consistency. I believe I might direct you to one of the runners-up, by the name of Spears of the Northmen, which might fulfill your werewolf related demands, although I regret to inform you it only appears to have 2 Werewolves. If that is enough to satisfy your insatiable hunger for werewolf cock, I could direct you to the author's blog, where it is made freely available.
No the map was forgiveable, it was not a death sentence, I meant to say that he missed the map and I would count that against him but is not fatal. The last section was very chunky, and the organization of the elements was not as good as the other dungeons, otherwise it would have easily made the cut. The first section is very strong and he's since rewritten his material I think? Cool guy.
I play about half TotM combat with only a previously noted marching order/formation in my current game. Owlbears makes it pretty easy to do more complex combat. I played ToM a lot when I was into Dark Heresy.
Definitely going to show up on every Random Encounter List from now on, except not Horny in the artpunk way with scribbletitties, but like Horn-ed, like a unicorn
Vanilla is my favorite flavor of ice cream. If you cannot imagine Conan cleaving a Yeti's head off in the halls of SKALBAK SNEER then you have no soul. Bravo to all entrants.
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Stating that arguments centred around an entertainment medium have a degree of subjectivism to them is pointing out the blearingly obvious at best, meaningless blather and cope for lack of substansive commentary at worst.
Whining that you do not like the tone is, if possible, even less substansive. And yet you compound this intriguing mixture of adolescent defiance and absolutely humiliating failure to comment meaningfully in any way shape or form with grudging acknowledgement that there might be a point after all. Well gee, you could have skipped to the end without boring us with your personal diary.
Whether there is a discussion to be had or no, this is not for you to decide. Eat your free food and be grateful, piggy.
Yes I am certainly doing extremely poorly having just released the third volume of this grand series to the joy of me and mine, and inspiring the creation of similar contests :D
https://princeofnothing.itch.io/no-artpunk-iii
This has been your second failed attempt at commentary. First, obviously myself and the defenition of pretentious are well acquainted, old friends, soul-mates if you will. Second, a defenition does not possess intelligence and memory, therefore it cannot actually get acquainted with me.
Perhaps a clearer explanation will help you in the future; This is a comment section, for the exchange of ideas and experiences, the airing of questions, the meeting of great minds and the engagement with the substance of the product. This is not your personal diary, nor is it a digital litterbox for the explusion of ugly, malformed, unintelligable pariah-caste thought-pellets. At this point I must recommend you consider the possibility that commentary might simply not be for you, and you should instead pursue a career in subsistence farming. Then, if during Kwanza, the local warlord allows you a few hours of free time and a stable internet connection, you may download my work, and if you like it, say, 'Thank you Prince' and then go back to farming, lest the irate warlord make an example out of you.
So remember; It's 'Thank you, Prince.' Now back to work.
Invoking pride certainly seems an appropriate fit for the quality of your rejoinders thus far. You are also going to have to put in some work on the bants though, my initial divine wrath at your smudgy, uncouth vandalism of my pristine, lordly and blessed comment's section is turning into weary apathy at the rate this is going. I understand that for a person of your normally parasitic demeanor this might not come as second nature but I remain eternally optimistic, as well as unusually charitable.
W.r.t thanks; Don't mention it lad. Have a good time, play a few games with them. Try the high level adventures too, they are pretty good and its good fun if you can find a DM with the brain cells. And while you are at it, donate a few bucks to help me fight Aids and Artpunk.
I like the DIY feel of this, but who is this attacking and why? It feels a little weird tbh to be gatekeeping OSR/NSR stuff. I guess I might be a little bit out of the loop, but what defines Artpunk? And what defines OSR to you? I agree the term seems to have been diluted today, but I'm trying to parse what your goal is here.
I mean this with the utmost sincerity. This is the first I'm finding of the No Artpunk thing.
EDIT: I should have read the essay at the beginning of the book first.
Simply put, would you agree your thesis is that "A lot of OSR material tends put style over untested substance."?
If so, I think I agree.
I like the idea of following the root of the hobby had having a shared b/x language. I'm not a creator so I have very little skin in the game either way. But it seems to me like the dilution and uninspired creations in the Artpunk movement just happened as a consequence of it becoming large. It's just Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is crap). I don't think it's necessarily a consequence of not having a shared system or ignoring the lessons of Gygax and other older creators.
Once your No Artpunk movement becomes large enough, will you criticize it as well?
Hi. I am glad you enjoyed it. That is this collection's primary purpose.
The true history of the OSR is by now very tangled and confused. This is a very comprehensive look at it if you have 9000 hours.
https://osrsimulacrum.blogspot.com/2021/02/a-historical-look-at-osr-part-i.html
Simply put, it had an OD&D/AD&D language before it had a B/X language. I would agree there is dilution as a result of an influx of newcomers, but the main problem is these newcomers have not been habituated or 'civilized'. Increasing the pool should increase the amount of good material that is coming out also. This, I think, does not occur in the same measure that it used to.
I think the decay is exacerbated by having neither a culture of practice nor a unifying system which serves as an anchor for that culture. Without it, you go back to square one, stumbling in darkness, endlessly re-invented the wheel. It is a precondition for transcending Sturgeon's law, rising out of the primordial chaos.
I run a fairly popular review blog. I've criticized everything from uber traditional AD&D tournament modules, 5e campaign settings to more Artpunky material. I have a preference, but I've given very positive reviews to works like Deep Carbon Observatory, and negative reviews to, say, The Seven Shrines of Nav'Qar which I find too traditional. My goal is not to destroy innovation. It is to refocus creative energies and encourage engagement with the subject material.
This year it is high level D&D. Keep an eye on the blog if you would like to know more. And happy gaming!
Interesting. I haven't been able to read the whole blog post, but I'm glad that you agree that people who like playing Monopoly desperately need help.
I dunno how interested in a high level D&D version of this I would be as I probably don't play enough for it to be useful to me, but it seems pretty cool. I guess this is where you're going to start narrowing and lose people like me. Not that you probably mind, it seems like this is an area you're interested in exploring as a passion which is pretty cool.
I'm not particularly attached to the OSR or the purity of it, but I think I can appreciate what you're trying to do and say. Creating a more focused OSR is an interesting goal and its kinda neat to see people congregating around that idea.
Personally, I like the rules-lite approach surrounding the OSR, and the "just play" attitude I tend to see in these spaces online. As someone who started at 12 years old with 3.5e, I don't have the original experience or nostalgia with OD&D or B/X, but I've enjoyed the simplicity and charm. And the fact that PCs don't start off with 10 page backstories, something I was often guilty of which completely blocked my ability to actually play with a group.
I've come to realize I just don't care for the focus on "Narrative" and "Role-Play" in capital letters (PbtA, FATE). Those things tend to be exhausting after a while for me. Fast and procedural play really seem to work for me in actual play which is why I've enjoyed things in this space.
I do wish the categories were clearer so I could understand who and what I'm engaging with online, but at the end of the day if I'm enjoying a game with hp, ac, str, int, wis, dex, con, cha, and xp, and its in a dungeon, I'm playing D&D and that's good enough for me. I don't really care what its called as long as me and my friends are having fun.
Also: Are you still writing on that Simulacrum blog? It seems like the last post was in May 2022.
[Blog]
Its not my blog. Its a good series though. This is my blog.
https://princeofnothingblogs.wordpress.com/
[High Level]
I think its definetely not meant for everyone, certainly not for newcomers, but its easier and more fun then it looks. If you ever get deeper into oldschool D&D its worth a shot. Fwiw when I ran Slyth Hive, some of my playtesters were totally new to AD&D, especially high level AD&D and they loved it.
[More focused OSR]
I see it as a correction. It used to be more focused, now its grown so broad it has become meaningless, so its time to refocus and go back to what it was all about when it began.
[Rules-lites]
Hahah I wrote a medium-vicious diatribe about rules-lites that I named 'the Rules-Lite Sickness' or something along those lines.
https://princeofnothingblogs.wordpress.com/2023/04/26/the-rules-lite-sickness-ga...
I started one game earlier then you, with 2nd edition. I like the lighter nature of the OSR over 3.5e too, but I do think the current rules lite trend is a little ridiculous, and there is definetely a point where you start to seriously cut into the substance of the game. I too enjoy the game part of rpgs much more then the narrative or role-playing part.
[Preferences]
I like my D&D to be challenging, versatile, occasionally complex and about player skill. I think there is an immense wealth of material and experience that has been built up over decades of play that can help people make better stuff.
FYI, if you liked the collection, I have a second one up on Drivethru which is also free. I hope you get some use out of them.
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/379533/no-artpunk-vol-1
This is a great product
The fact people are angry at this, a free product which they can choose to not play, shows why it needs to exist
The amount of pure copium in this product is amazing to behold, before you get to the plain text adventures with stock photos or mspaint art, you're met with a multi-page essay on why things back in the day were great and how today's adventures are awful because of... pronouns and... art by paid illustrators and... professional layout software, and *if only we could go back to MY childhood when things were actually PLAYABLE*, conveniently forgetting even the three little brown books were better presented and more professionally illustrated than this stuff.
I'd rather stick with artpunk games to be honest, at least those creators make things based on what they love, rather than getting their friends together to collectively despise something and tell you their way is the one true way... to pretend to be elves and dwarves around a kitchen table.
Ps. It's always hilarious to see people claim their games are free of politics, when what they mean is "free of things I deem to be political or disagreeable", the head-in-sand energy is strong here.
Yes you certainly seem very Zen and level-headed. I don't think you quite understood the essay, but you don't really have to.
I didn't know any of these people before they participated in the contest, and these are labors of love and genuine joy. That you would focus on a single sentence instead of the actual material is, well, it sort of proves the point of that single sentence.
One true way? Who knows. I think I can encourage people to do better work for sure.
Have a pleasant 2023.
sounds like you have your panties in a twist hahaha
BRO IS FREQUENTLY WRONG!💯🔥🔥 YOOO HE ON TO NOTHING!!🔥❗❗ DAWG IS NOT COOKING!!! 💯💪🤯
How would you say NAP II holds up against your recent purchase of 'I Don't Need Therapy, I Need to Get Gangbanged by 14 Werewolves in Public'? Would adding more Werewolves sway you? Out with it! I have a hobby to conquer!
I rated 'I Don't Need Therapy, I Need to Get Gangbanged by 14 Werewolves in Public' 14/10 Werewolves.
I rate 'No Artpunk II' 0.5/10 Werewolves, on account of lacking any Werewolves.
0.5 points for the pregen companion named Wolfhead, but sadly they are human, and not even a human with a wolf's head? Truly, this is stirring a spoon in the blandest portage.
This criticism, while idiotic at first glance, does seem to possess a certain unassailable self-consistency. I believe I might direct you to one of the runners-up, by the name of Spears of the Northmen, which might fulfill your werewolf related demands, although I regret to inform you it only appears to have 2 Werewolves. If that is enough to satisfy your insatiable hunger for werewolf cock, I could direct you to the author's blog, where it is made freely available.
Oh yeah no worries. I can take the heat :P
No the map was forgiveable, it was not a death sentence, I meant to say that he missed the map and I would count that against him but is not fatal. The last section was very chunky, and the organization of the elements was not as good as the other dungeons, otherwise it would have easily made the cut. The first section is very strong and he's since rewritten his material I think? Cool guy.
https://thiefofwhispers.wordpress.com/2022/08/26/spears-of-the-northmen-an-adven...
I play about half TotM combat with only a previously noted marching order/formation in my current game. Owlbears makes it pretty easy to do more complex combat. I played ToM a lot when I was into Dark Heresy.
I hope you get some use out of the rest.
idk boss, sounds like you're just pressed you only got 0.5/10 werewolves. skill issue, if you ask me.
Here's to the slow upward crawl to 2.5/14 Werewolves.
Note to self: Include over 14 horny werewolves in No-Artpunk III entry.
man that rocks - 14 HORNY WEREWOLVES 4EVAH
Definitely going to show up on every Random Encounter List from now on, except not Horny in the artpunk way with scribbletitties, but like Horn-ed, like a unicorn
A Lycacorn? We'll see
I'm thinking NAP III will be for higher levels so you will get plenty of opportunity. Please omit the gangbangs if possible, public or otherwise.
filth
Glorious Adventures for Fantasy Gamers
Fantasy Adventuring Gaming in it's purest form. Pick this up Ladies and Gentlemen.
The charity bit is nice, bu the rest? Cringe.
You misspelled 'but.'
Vanilla is my favorite flavor of ice cream. If you cannot imagine Conan cleaving a Yeti's head off in the halls of SKALBAK SNEER then you have no soul. Bravo to all entrants.